Mic'd Up: The world soccer analyst discussed the influence of Brazilian soccer at the CWC, 'legend' Thiago Silva and semifinal favorites
Callum Williams, soccer commentator for Apple TV, added a new role this summer as one of the voices covering the FIFA Club World Cup for DAZN.
Williams has experience covering the world's game, from the EFL Championship to the Copa Libertadores. In recent years, he's found passion in the Brasilerao Serie A, and at the 2025 Club World Cup, he's witnessed the flare that ignited the entire country.
"Honestly, I think people, if they didn't know, certainly realize how big and well-loved these football clubs are," Williams told GOAL. "Brazil is just like any other football-obsessed nation in the fact that football is a religion, it's not sport. It never will be. It's more than that. It's a part of the culture."
From Flamengo fans storming Times Square in New York City to Fluminense, Palmeiras, and Botafogo supporters creating electric atmospheres across the tournament, Williams is thrilled the world is finally taking notice of the brilliance of the Brasilerao.
"I think it's been wonderful to see how well the games have been attended," he said. "I commentated on a Botafogo game against Atletico Madrid, and Botafogo fans were by far and away the better fans compared to the Atletico Madrid fans. And you know, it's this is nothing new to me. It's just something that I think the Brazilian football fans and South American football fans should be very, very, very proud of."
The CWC semifinals kick off this week at MetLife Stadium in East Rutherford, New Jersey, and he believes a shock could be in store. Fluminense, out of Brazil, have been the Cinderella story of the tournament, making their way to the final four. They will take on Chelsea for a spot in the final against the winner of PSG-Real Madrid – and Williams believes they can best the English powerhouse.
"I do think they've got what it takes to get past Chelsea," he said. "And Thiago Silva? Legend, wherever he's played, whether it's Chelsea or Paris Saint-Germain and now Fluminense, he is a living legend. I can't believe he's still operating at this level at the age of 40. You know, it's remarkable to see. I think they've got what it takes."
As for the other semifinal? He had a point of view.
"I think PSG is the modern-day success story in European football at the moment, and they're my favorite to win it," he said. "I think they are the best team in the world right now."
Williams discussed the impact of Brazilian football on the Club World Cup, the growth of the competition and more in the latest edition of Mic'd Up, a recurring feature in which GOAL US taps into the perspective of broadcasters, analysts, and other pundits on the state of soccer in the U.S. and abroad.
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ON THE CLUB WORLD CUP
GOAL: What have you made of the 32-team expanded FIFA Club World Cup?
WILLIAMS: I think it's been tremendously exciting. I'm always up for more football, and especially more football here in the U.S. And so when it was first suggested that this expanded Club World Cup was going to be a thing, I thought to myself, well, as long as it's done properly and the players are looked after, the facilities are good – then it shouldn't be a problem. And that was always going to be answered by which country it was going to be in, and so doing it in the U.S. has been the right choice. It has been a remarkable success, because the facilities here in this country, I would argue, are among the best in the world, regardless if you're training and playing in MLS stadiums. I know a handful of teams were using university training facilities and stadiums for their training camps. So I think from a facilities perspective it's been great
I think it's been so entertaining. And there haven't been too many nil-nils. I can't remember now how many goals we've had in its entirety, but I bet you it's more than people expected. I came into it with a very open mind. I think some people are just creatures of habit, aren't they? And are very satisfied with what they have. And I understand that. But I think we're in this age now where new is usually quite fresh and exciting, and I think that's been what the epitome of the Club World Cup has been. And so I think a lot of people, whether or not they took some convincing or not, have now had their heads turned, and I think it's become a legitimate competition. I think it's become something that clubs will want to play in, and a large portion of that is simply because of the prize money… so far so good for the first iteration of of this Club World Cup. I think it's been a tremendous success.
GOAL: What do you think of how FIFA has rolled out the tournament, and what can be learned?
WILLIAMS: I hope FIFA has learned from this. I think putting certain teams in certain markets clearly didn't work… I don't think you ever really have to worry about some of the bigger teams, like Real Madrid, Bayern, Munich, Paris Saint-Germain… But I think some of the other places where a lot of the English language audience weren't too familiar with certain teams, where they were placed was very, very good marketing and very good research. Putting Flamengo in the northeast of the country, where there is a very, very large Portuguese and Portuguese-speaking Brazilian population? I thought that was really good.
There was a night when I had just finished doing an NWSL game for Gotham, I was walking through Manhattan, and it was technically Saturday morning. Then there were hundreds, if not thousands, of Flamengo fans – and Esperance fans, to be fair to them as well – but there were thousands of people all donning their jerseys, all having a great time. And it was a party, sort of Carnival-like atmosphere.
And it actually got me very excited for next summer, which I think is going to be on another level. This was a really good dress rehearsal for the next summer. And I hope FIFA has taken advantage of the opportunities that have come their way this year. And I really, really hope that they've learned some lessons, because there were some games that left a little bit more to be desired, with regards to attendance – and that's purely because I think they're those teams were put in the wrong market. And so I hope people have learned from that.
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ON BRAZIL'S IMPACT AT THE CWC
GOAL: Brazilian football has been one of the delightful surprises of the competition. As someone who has studied the Brasilerao, was this something you expected? Was it a surprise?
WILLIAMS: This is something I expected tenfold, to be honest. Honestly, I think people, if they didn't know, certainly realize how big and well-loved these football clubs are. Brazil is just like any other football-obsessed nation in the fact that football is a religion, it's not a sport. It never will be. It's more than that. It's a part of the culture. And so with the amount of people that are here in North America, and the number of people that I was told may very well travel up here to North America from South America, I did have an inkling that it may very well be the Brazilian teams that had good attendance.
Flamengo, I was fortunate enough to do two of their games, and the atmosphere was tremendous. It's as you would expect. So with regards to Flamengo themselves as a football club, they're a massive club, they're huge. And I just think now for the first time, a lot of the English language audience, whether that's here in the U.S. and Canada or in England or the Middle East or what have you. I think they are finally starting to understand that these are very, very big football clubs. And they're very well supported, for obvious reasons.
I think it's been wonderful to see how well the games have been attended. I commentated on a Botafogo game against Atletico Madrid, and Botafogo fans were by far and away the better fans compared to the Atletico Madrid fans. And you know, it's this is nothing new to me. It's just something that I think the Brazilian football fans and South American football fans should be very, very, very proud of.
GOAL: Brazilian football's next star is Estevao, who had a phenomenal tournament for Palmeiras and is now set to join Chelsea. Who from the Club World Cup is next up? Who were the players that caught your eye, and potentially, the world's?
WILLIAMS: Igor Jesus of Botafogo, I thought, led the line well. He was a massive pain for Paris-Saint Germain and an even bigger pain for Atletico Madrid. He proved that he can play at that level. And to my knowledge, he’s going to head off to Nottingham Forest over the course of the next couple of weeks. His teammate Jair Cunha, center half, is very, very composed on the ball, as you would expect any Brazilian footballer to be, but just does all the dirty work very, very cleanly. Tackles are often timed to perfection. The reading of the game is superb. The way that he can deliver a pass on a dime. His passing range is wonderful.
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ON FLUMINENSE VS CHELSEA
GOAL: Fluminense vs Chelsea is a reunion for captain Thiago Silva, and a chance for the Brazilian side to shock the world. Is it a feasible task for them?
WILLIAMS: I do think they've got what it takes to get past Chelsea and Thiago Silva? Legend, wherever he's played, whether it's Chelsea or Paris Saint-Germain and now Fluminense, he is a living legend. I can't believe he's still operating at this level at the age of 40. You know, it's remarkable to see. I think they've got what it takes. I think there have been a couple of standouts from a Fluminense point of view as well. But Chelsea is obviously a very, very strong, very good team. And Cole Palmer seems to be now coming into his own. Takes time for some of the new players to gel, obviously, but I think once they understand Enzo Maresca and his system, there'll be no problem.
From a CONMEBOL perspective, it's massive. This tournament has probably gone as well as it could have gone for CONMEBOL… Fluminense will have made a bucket load of money from doing this. I think it's probably upwards of something like $60 million. That is what, whilst there is a lot of money in the Brasilerao, I think that's probably deemed next-level type money for Brazilian football. And so I go back to my previous point about this has been a wonderful tournament, and it's been a major opportunity for so many to showcase themselves. But also to make some, some good money that they can push them onto the next level, whatever the next level that they want to go through.
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ON PSG VS REAL MADRID
GOAL: Then, opposite, it’s Real Madrid vs. PSG, a battle of two giants. Who comes out on top, and why?
WILLIAMS: Well, I'll probably show a little bit more bias than regulars you would ask this question to because I love Paris. It is my favorite place in the world, and so watching Paris Saint-Germain as often as possible, watching Ligue 1 as often as possible. And I think that obviously, going up against the might of Real Madrid, there's going to be some problems. They're going to have to be a little more disciplined and a lot less open than they usually are.
I think the one area where they may struggle and they might have to be a little more reserved is in that fullback area where they often press Hakimi and Nuno Mendes into these high-pressing situations. And, you know, Luis Enrique has them moving into the center of midfield. And you know, they are the best-attacking fullbacks in world football. But I do wonder when they're going up against the likes of Vinicius Jr, will they need to be a little more reserved and in moments, be a little smarter?
There's no question Real Madrid are superior. Real Madrid is still, for me, one of the top-two, three teams in world football. But I think what's been refreshing over the course of the last couple of weeks is that people are now taking notice of PSG and taking on board that actually, it's not just them winning the gun all the time. They're actually a really dominant for that really started to happen when they started taking the personalities out of the dressing rooms and becoming more of a unit as a team.
And, you know, I think the signing of Khvicha Kvaratskhelia here was a stroke of genius from Luis Enrique when everybody was saying: 'Why do they need him, they needed a center forward?' And then all of a sudden, Dembele starts scoring goals for fun, Desire Doue all of a sudden starts getting more space because of Kvaratskhelia and what he's doing off the ball because of Dembele and the runs that he's making now because of Kvaratskhelia’s passing range. I think PSG is the modern-day success story in European football at the moment, and they're my favorite to win it. I think they are the best team in the world right now.